German Mastiff (Deutsche Dogge)

German Mastiff (Deutsche Dogge)

Postby sunnyAK on 7. December 2011, 22:13

German Mastiff (Deutsche Dogge)

other names: Dgue Alemand, Alano Allevamento, Dogo Alemán
and Great Dane (lol this time last and least) an English/American misnomer that has confused many people.

i want to offer an neutral point of view on the subject, as after WW II, some people from different nations tried to fiddle and manipulate the known facts about the breed and in opposite to other breeds, the history of the German Mastiff is pretty well documented.

first off all i want to show you a bad example of nationalism. this is what the same guy who has written some romanticized and nationalistic motivated breed profiles on MolosserDogs is saying about the German Mastiff. he even tries to trace back the German Mastiff to greek and other balkan LGDs and boarhounds being blended with dragons a type of serbian sylvans, :roll: although it is a well know fact that the German Mastiff goes back to british sighthounds & mastiffs and german bullenbeissers.

ok, here wolf´s serbian/nationalistic motivated statements about the origin of the German Mastiff.

Wolf:
"The Greek-German Suliot Dog is code for Sylvan. The Suliot dogs of Greece were based in boarhound/LGD crossbreds being blended with pure Dragons and kept by the people remembered as Suliots, who were Greek-Serbian-Albanian nobles operating as united warriors in occupied territories. Once they were no longer needed, they traveled with Slavic pig drivers northward and dispersed all over what we call Germany."


and now the true story of the German Mastiff written by me, using various unbiased sources written by breed authorities and cynologists!
German Mastiff from 1883:
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German Mastiff dog history first appears about 3000BC. We see GM like dogs in carvings on Egyptian monuments built around this time. Fast forward 3400 years to the 5th century, when present day Europe was invaded by the Alanis, an Asiatic race, who brought giant mastiff dogs with them. Over the next several hundred years, it is surmised that these mastiff like dogs were cross bred with Irish Grey Hounds, producing a giant but slimmer breed than pure mastiff.
Over several hundred years the Celts cross bred large mastiffs with either greyhound or Irish wolfhound (or perhaps both). This effort led to the development of the "English Dogge", which some would say is the ancestor to the Modern German Mastiff.

Some sources state that dogs similar to GMs were known in Ancient Egypt and Rome, but paintings always show large dogs and that doesn´t mean they are related. Large dogs have been developed in different parts of the world, without being related. Also the biggest wolves could be found and still can be found not in the middle east, but in parts of eastern europe, russia and north america. The northern wolves are much bigger than the wolves you can find in the middle east.
Various sources report that the GM was developed from the medieval boarhound, and of the Mastiff and Irish wolfhound lines.
The German Bullenbeisser may be its direct ancestor, composing about the 40% of its make-up.
According to Barbara Stein, "The breed originated in Germany, from a cross between the English mastiff and the Irish Wolfhound."

It is probably true that both versions of German Mastiff history are accurate and contributed to the beautiful animals we now enjoy, but certainly, the Germans deserve most of the credit for the development of the breed as we know it today. By the 16th century, these giant dogs were fairly common as boar hounds in both Britain and the Germanic states. The Germans did import a large number of these "Englishe dogges" for cross breeding with their own version as they worked to develop the perfect boar hunter for their own needs.
But here the history of the German Mastiff takes another twist. Boar hounds were not cuddly stoic dogs. European wild boar were very dangerous and hunting them required a fast, strong and aggressive dog. And that's what had been developed. But it was also realized, that a dog of this size could be an excellent guard dog - although in order to fulfill this function something would have to be done to make it more people friendly. And so over the 18th and 19th centuries, German dog breeders concentrated on evolving their boar hound into a breed of good temperament and friendliness.
The Germans continued to document and develop the breed and in 1880 breeders and dog judges (dog shows and dogs were huge in Germany then as now) met and agreed that this German breed was now distinctly different from the English mastiffs and formally declared the "Deutsche doggen".
In 1891, the Great Dane Club of Germany was formed (still called Deutsche doggen or German Dog club) and the modern day standard was adopted. Eight years later, the Great Dane club of America was founded in Chicago and the Dane was officially recognized in North America.
So why is a dog breed that has never had anything to do with Denmark named a Great Dane?
Another little twist in Great Dane history. In the early 1700's, a French naturalist, Compte de Buffon first saw these dogs while traveling in Denmark. He labeled this breed "le Grande Denois" or Great Dane. For some reason, the name stuck - although only in English. (The Germans continued to refer to this breed as the "Deutsche doggen".) So, although Denmark has absolutely no part to play in the story of the history of Great Danes, the dog is nevertheless tied to it albeit in name only.
And as a final note about the history of the dogs, there have been several famous GMs associated with famous people. The founder of modern day Germany, Otto von Bismarck always had GMs beside him. General Cornwallis brought his "english dogs" on campaign with him during the American war of Independance (he lost!). Buffalo Bill Cody always had his black GM "Turk" with him and Manfred von Richtofen, the famous Red Baron,is said to have taken his GM "Moritz" up for a couple of flights! And of course, Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a GM lover and always had several nearby.

regards
sunnyAK

the same info i have written
in the sub-category
of my board:

http://sunnyak.forenworld.at/index.php
sunnyAK
 
Posts: 57
Joined: 7. December 2011, 17:04

Re: German Mastiff (Deutsche Dogge)

Postby sunnyAK on 7. December 2011, 22:13

Some German Mastiffs working:

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A beautiful “Grautiger” (merle) pup
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And here some other German Mastiffs from European lines:
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sunnyAK
 
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Re: German Mastiff (Deutsche Dogge)

Postby sunnyAK on 5. January 2012, 17:55

The German Mastiff & coat colours

i would like to attach an article i wrote.
just "me & the keyboard" :D only my thoughts and what i know about genetics, as well as the way kennelclubs like the FCI and others disdain the healthy "blue-merle" (Grautiger) dogs they have in every litter of the harlekin dogs, they desire to have. this makes no sense, as you always also get blue-merles if you want to have harlekins.


some colours that occur naturally in the German Mastiff breeding are not allowed, for the simple reason, that the standard of the German Mastiff doesn't want these colours. with that said, it is simply a "cosmetical" reason, or in other words a matter of taste.

German Mastiffs are not accepted in grey-spotted (know as Grautiger in germany) and blue-merle in the USA and yellow-white, as well as some other versions are not accepted, in accord with the standard.
it is absolutely nonsense and has nothing to do with health!

in every litter of the harlekin (white dog with black spots) x black breeding you get German Mastiffs in black, grey-spotted dogs and the harlekin German Mastiffs which are the white dogs with black spots. in germany they are also known as "Tigerdogge"!

only one thing about the standard makes sense, namely that pure white German Mastiffs aren't allowed.
with that said it isn't allowed to breed harlekin x harlekin and especially not merle x merle (Grautiger x Grautiger), as some of the dogs will be pure white and there is a much higher probability of deaf and/or blind dogs!
so i totally agree that merle x merle should be avoided and can be regarded as breeding of defects.

but the fact that colours like grey-white or yellow-white are not accepted by the FCI or other kennel clubs, although the dogs are healthy. that´s pretty stupid. ::)

again a blue-merle dog (Grautiger) from a black x harlekin breeding is just as healthy as any pure black dog, harlekin dog, fawn dog, brindle dog etc. ! so it would be stupid to disdain such dogs. they are often even quite pretty, however this is not what i am talking about, as i am talking about health and they are as healthy as all the other dogs i have mentioned.

here an example:
by the way the breeder told the German Mastiff in the pic is a "Grautiger" which means grey-white-black spotted dog.

as i have mentioned before the (blue-merle) "Grautiger" is not allowed for dog shows as it is not accepted in the standard.
but the breeder made a mistake, by telling it was a "Grautiger" as the dog is not grey-white-black, so i guess she does not know that the black dog she used had a "yellow" mother or father. the latter is my speculation why the dog has this colour. this dog also would never be allowed for a dog show, although it is maybe healthier as many other dogs at dog shows due to a new bloodline. by the way in my opinion the dog and colour look great. 8-)

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concerning the German Mastiff here there are two possibilities.
possibility one: it was a harlekin GM bred with a fawn GM (this is unlikely, as no German Mastiff breeder will do that, as he cannot take the dog to dog shows and no dog shows, means less money. (sad but true)

possibility two and this is my guess: it was a harlekin GM bred with a phenotypical black GM, but in this case the black GM must have been black by phenotype but by genotype 50% black and 50% fawn. with that said black x harlekin can result in such a "Porzelantiger" German Mastiff, as the black dog only was phenotypically black.

pals, i hope you like my "article" and i hope it is interesting for some people here. :D

regards
sunnyAK

p.s. this nice pup (no pure GM pup) also has the merle gene, but is totally healthy.
Image
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